Home > Emmanuel Research Review > Issue No. 13 > > Matt
KruseTalk to Me!
Church Planting Panel Discussion,
Boston, October 15, 2005
Supplement to Issue No. 13, January 31,
2006
Issue No. 13 main article
| Research Review index | Emmanuel Gospel
Center
[Matt Kruse shares about Malden, Massachusetts, how Edgeworth Church began, and six areas of learning] Listen to Matt's talk (MP3 file, 29 minutes)
[room gets settled; moderator Rev. Ralph Kee introduces Matt]
MK: All right. I got no problem speaking up.
Malden facts
We are up in Malden. I call it an “urburb.” It’s a suburb but it’s very urban. It’s right on the Orange Line. It’s a lower middle class community historically. It has a big Asian population because you can jump on the Orange Line and get to Chinatown—and it’s very multiethnic. It’s jam-packed with people, about sixty-five thousand people in five square miles. And nobody goes to church. So it’s just blinding white, ripe for the harvest. [City of Malden website: www.ci.malden.ma.us/index.asp]How Edgeworth Church began
I was worshiping at a great, healthy, tiny, ninety-seat community church in a northern neighborhood in Malden. We had outgrown our space. We didn’t really know what to do. None of us had ever heard the words “church planting.” The pastor was introduced to the term in 2000. He went to a conference and they asked, “Who in your church might feel led to plant a church?” He wrote my name. And that was it.It was this funny, strange, godly-type-of-thing. I was finishing up an MBA at Boston University. I just didn’t want to pour my life into making a lot of money for myself [and] not helping others. And he [the pastor] said, “What do you think about planting a church?” And I said, “Yeah. Wow, let me think about that.” I went and talked to my wife. At the end of the week, we decided that that was exactly what we should do. I guess that’s the way it is when you are actually called to do it. The only possible answer is “yes,” because otherwise you couldn’t sleep at night.
So that was the start of the planting of a church. We chose to do it in our same city. It was five years ago that we responded to the call. And we started worshiping about four years ago. So, we are four years into the life of the church plant. So that’s who we are.
We meet in a school that we have a great relationship with. We use two of the classrooms and a great hall. We’re set right off of a main street right in Malden. We have good parking. God has been very gracious to us with the facility.
Where we are today
We’ve got about thirty or thirty-five members; maybe sixty or seventy people who worship on Sunday, and maybe eighty or ninety people who are a part of the life of the church; so, no huge success story of numbers. But it’s healthy and we get this feeling that we are just turning the corner to be able to start to impact that culture in a really good way. So that’s where we are today.I’d like to share some of the stuff I’ve learned in doing this. And I would encourage people who are getting ready to plant churches to think along some of these lines:
1. Develop a theology of mission
The first thing I wrote was to develop a theology of mission. When we started, I was a guy who was a strong Christian, but had no theological training at all. I was a teacher who went out and got his MBA. I was completely ready to start a new venture strategically, financially, operationally; that all came from my MBA. What I didn’t have was a great theology of mission. I went to a [church planting] boot camp and they told me all about how to start something. But they didn’t talk much about theology beyond the Great Commission; how Jesus said, “go,” so you should go.Over the course of four years, I have just studied the scriptures like crazy and read everything I could get my hands on about seeing God as a missional God who is on a mission himself. And we just get caught up with the missional work that a graceful, Sovereign God is doing. So we have learned that the Father is always sending. God sent the Son on a mission to redeem us. And Christ and the Father sent the Spirit to come and dwell with us. And the Spirit sent those first Christians into their cultures to redeem it and preach Jesus. And for two thousand years, men and women who have come to faith in Christ are sent into their cultures to do the same.
So we really developed a theology of mission. We are not just doing some work for God and God is “checking in” ’cause he told us to do it. But God is a missional God who is doing this work in all places, at all times, and we’re just caught up in his plan. If you are getting into planting a church, you want to stand on some solid theology of God involving you in his missional work.
I was so intimidated in starting a church and being a pastor that I had read my Bible like crazy. But I was not trained in any way to do preaching or theology. So I really poured myself into it; shepherding myself over the last four years. And the other thing that has really come home to me is that God is a sovereign God and that nothing is out of his sight, his hand or his will and purposes.
As a church planter you are going to run into a million closed doors, walls, operational difficulty, and failure. And, at the end of the day, you need to know God to be a sovereign, graceful God. Then you can sleep at night. We talk about our church working and praying like Arminians and sleeping like Calvinists. So we just rest in the fact that God’s purposes are going to be done. And it’s about him, not about us. (Arminians: see http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/arminian.htm. For Calvinists: see http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/calvin/index.html)
So many times we say, “I’m a Christian. My theology is set.” I would encourage everyone to keep getting back to the gospel, theology, the scriptures, back to a missional God who is sovereign and desires to accomplish his work through us. You’ll be able to sleep better at night and you’ll have such a confidence about what you are doing.
2. Start doing church in the direction of the culture
About two-and-a-half years into the life of our church plant, I realized that our culture was [pointing] —over there— and we were doing church sort of —this way— not in the direction of our culture. And we hadn’t been able to orient ourselves to start doing church in the direction of our culture. And that’s what you want to do as a church planter.I’m convinced that the church exists to be a bridge between people and God; between the culture and the gospel. And we have to find ways to get the message of Christ and the truth of who God is and what he has done, to the people that God has called us to. We have to build that bridge. So we have to go in their direction.
For us that has meant — no more neighborhood focus. When we started church, we thought, we are just going to reach another neighborhood. We got this school in this neighborhood called Edgeworth, with about five thousand people. Everybody told me it was a great neighborhood. And it was, thirty or forty years ago. So we spun our wheels for about two years doing church toward our neighborhood. Doing outreaches. Knocking on doors. Handing out flyers. And it was a waste of time because our culture was no longer defined by neighborhood. We were doing church toward our neighborhood and not toward our culture. [Rather than trying to meet the needs of a neighborhood that existed 30 years ago], we are called to reach culture in the Malden area. And that has been a big shift for us in thinking; instead of geographically, thinking culturally.
It means we no longer do “come-to-our-event stuff,” because our culture does not show up at church events. There is too much great evening entertainment out there for them. They’re not going to come to your event. So, we have gotten away from “attractional” ministry and started to be “incarnational.” Those are the catch phrases. That means we have taken everything we have outside the walls of our church. None of our small groups meet in the building. We’re going to houses and to schools and places rather than asking people to come.
We started a club at the high school that is not “Christian.” It’s just a music club oriented to the kids that are in the music scene. Band guys go to the high school to these kids and talk shop with them about music. Inevitably, the fact that they are Christians comes up and the gospel can be given. We’re doing a monthly Friday night event at the church, but it’s the kids who do the night. They come and do their music, read their poetry and show their art. And then we are able to do that in a worship context. You know, our culture is no longer into just observation. You can’t just sit back and catch a TV show. You got to participate. You got to call on your cell phone. You got to get online and participate. That’s what the culture is doing so we are trying to do church in their direction.
We don’t do altar calls— ever, because our culture is not ready for me to say, “Are you ready to make a decision about Jesus today?” Our culture doesn’t know Jesus at all. They know nothing about him outside of some catch phrases. So we don’t try to ask somebody to make a decision for Jesus in a moment. We are looking for a lifestyle change over time. People who have come into the faith and are baptized with us didn’t raise their hand and choose in a moment. They started hanging out with us and started hearing the gospel and something changed them. They are not ready to make a decision. So we are doing church in their direction. We’re just giving them Jesus.
We don’t speak Christianese at all, because they don’t speak the language. I’ll never forget a lady who came to church. She asked me to have a meal with them. I said, “Do you know how Peter denied Jesus three times?” And she goes, “No.” She had no idea about St. Peter or the Bible story. That’s my culture. I can’t even speak Christianese at all. So we are changing the way we speak for their sake.
We don’t use paper at all. We don’t do a bulletin. We don’t mail anything. Everything is done online or through the overhead projector. Because, that’s the way our culture is. And they are not interested in being handed a commodity when they come to church. But if they want, they can jump online.
This has been very hard for us, too. We are trying to be a bigger church. When we started, I thought we would just be about as big as Forestdale [our mother church]; 100-110 people, serve the neighborhood, everybody knows everybody. God has really convicted me that the call for us is to be a lot bigger than I am comfortable with. In our culture, there is the need for a bigger church with more influence and more opportunity for them to be connected in different ways. So I have even altered my hopes for the size of the church, based on this understanding of our culture. The challenge for you guys is to say, “Who is my culture? How do they think and react? Where are they coming from and how do I orient my shoulders to do church in their direction?”
3. Mission trumps everything else
In church planting, mission trumps everything else. We preach like crazy that the church exists not for the sake of the people who go there, but for the sake of the glory of God and knowing that his gospel is preached for the transforming of culture. So this church is not about you, or your preferences, or your likes, or your dislikes. It’s about God, his gospel, and people that don’t know him—finding a place where they can come to know him.That drives people away really fast. But I have come to learn that that is really a good thing. You start a church and it’s fine to have a bunch of people leave. It hurts, it stinks, but it’s ok. Because the mission of God dictates the life of the church, not the wants, desires or needs of the people who go there. We called members for the first time about ten months ago. People who had been with us about two-and-a-half years left because the church wasn’t becoming something in itself, but something for the sake of the gospel. The thought didn’t appeal to them. We were just getting big enough to have Sunday School classes, women’s groups, and a fulltime pastor, and we were done. And when we told them about that in our member class they said, “Matt, we love you, but were not with you anymore.” That was hard. But you know that was the best thing that happened that year. Because every one [of those people] who would have been rolling their eyes whenever I preached, or sowing discord, or just frustrated, was gone. And [now] the only people left were those who were sold out on the mission that God has for Edgeworth Church. So don’t be afraid to loose people or to say, “The mission of God is what trumps everything else.”
We do want to get a balance between gathering and sending. So corporate worship is immensely important to us. Our core groups/small groups are immensely important, yet they don’t exist solely for the people in them. And the worship in the small groups exists for these people as well as others. So if you’re not preaching and living that in your church, you’re going to get off track in about five seconds. Because we tend to cluster and isolate ourselves. So this is what we do.
I have dropped so many things in the last year, because I said, “If it’s not missional we’re done with it, we’re finished.” I’m not spending resources, money, energy, [or] time on endeavors that are not, somehow, transforming our selves so that we can transform our culture. We would do a “Christian” movie after church and have popcorn. And all the people really loved it. And I said, “It’s finished. We’re not here just to worship together and huddle together for a bad movie with popcorn and coffee.” We would do “share and prayer” out loud at our service. And it was wonderful and important for the first two years in the life our church. But our mission is to be bigger and to welcome people, rather than making them feel like they just interrupted the family meeting. So I dropped the “share and prayer” from our liturgy. And the people were freaked out about it because it was what they really enjoyed. And so I shepherded them through the way that we are going to be praying together. Because that method of doing sharing and prayer was not missionally minded. So we dropped it [the old “prayer and share”]. That was a very tough thing to do when you are a younger church and everything you do is changing, but mission has to be the trumping force in the life of the church.
4. Begin with the end in mind
The first two-and-a-half years of our church I didn’t begin with the end in mind. I just knew that I loved Jesus and I loved people. But I had not clearly written down how/what I hoped our church would become. What would it look like if we did a great job? What would it feel like?About a year-and-a-half ago, I finally started to do that and say, This is the end. This is where I was hoping God was calling us. And that has changed so much for me as a leader and for the church. We could finally envision. All right, this is where we are going. So, simple things like: I have a vision that our church is always more than 50% men. Because guys is our culture are complete wusses— [guys] are just a disgrace. And they need Jesus to be masculine. And they need to lead. They need to build homes and families. So I want my church to be packed with guys who are serving Jesus. So we do things in the direction of becoming a church in which a guy is just as comfortable as girl. I want our church to always have half of our people live in the city... in Malden. So we spend a ton of time and money in the city. Because I think a base of people living in that zip code is important to the stability of the future of our church. So that’s where we are going. We always want our church to be more than 50% under 30 years old, because we want it to be alive and growing. So we do church toward a younger demographic.
Now that we have looked at the end, we can move in that direction. Now, if you are just starting [a church], that is much harder to deal with. For two-and-a-half years I couldn’t tell you what the end was, but now I know. I need to write the plan down. And I need to communicate it to people. So we can go in those directions. Yes, God is sovereign. Yes, his providence is true. I don’t know exactly what it is going to be. But as a shepherd, God has called us to lead prayerfully and study my Bible. I’m saying there is an end we have in mind. So, let’s go having clear measurements. How many people do you want to come? How many members do you want to come? How many people do you want to baptize? How do you want the beginning to look like? I don’t think those are bad things. If you don’t reach those marks, you are ok. It’s not that you failed, but you have to be pushing yourself somewhere and having some measure of success. For me, I said, “God I want to be 25% better than last year and we’re giving 20 % better. Is that good or bad?” But we’re not giving 25% better, but look, we are giving better. But if I hadn’t kept that vision of the end in my mind, then maybe we would have remained at a flat rate. So, you want to push, and you want to do what you can to work with the end in mind. All right, two more things.
5. Be crystal clear about who you are and who you are not
This builds on something I said earlier. You want to be crystal clear about who you are and who you are not. As I said earlier, one of the best things that happened to us, I could now see, is when those people had left, that was ok. We [now] have 60-70 people worshipping on Sunday. When we started, we had about 35. One, two, three, four, five are left from the original 35. We were either too loosely connected [to each other], to Jesus, or too loosely connected to our mission. Because of that, in four years they disappeared. The 60 or 70 people who show up now, is such an immensely stronger church than the 35 or 40 that showed up then [at the beginning]. Another thing is that the numbers thing doesn’t tell the story. These 60 or 70 people are with me and with God and his mission. I’m so glad that I finally grew a backbone and was able to say, “This is who we are and who we are not.”I heard about this great conversation involving a baseball umpire. The umpire was asked, “How do you feel when you make the wrong call?” And the umpire said, “I’ve never made the wrong call.” [Then he was asked], “What do you mean you’ve never made the wrong call?” And he said, “The call doesn’t exist until I make it, and when I make it, that’s the call. So, if I say he was out, then he was out. And if I say he was safe, then he was safe.” You’re the umpire of your church. [You and the elders that are leading your church say what it is]. And it is what you say it is. And it’s you who says what you are and what you’re not. So make that call. And if you get it wrong, conviction comes from the Spirit of God. If convicted, you better repent. But guilt comes from people. Blow it off. Don’t let people put that [guilt] on you or their vision/mission. God’s called you to do the work, so let him bring the vision in. Then you say, “This is who we are and this is where we are going.” That’s not an arrogant thing. It is a necessary thing. If not, then every Tom, Dick, and Harry will be pushing the direction of the church and you’ll go nowhere. So you are free to say this is what we want to be. Run with us. But if not, fine. There are great churches you can attend. I’ll drive you crazy if you aren’t with us. Doing that has brought a team of people who are very clear about who we are and who we are becoming.
6. Do the things that only you can do
And the last thing that I have learned, as the lead planter, is to get yourself doing the things that no one else in your congregation can do, and not doing the things that anyone else can do. You know, for me it meant doing what God has uniquely gifted me: to teach and shepherd and lead as no one else can in the context of our church. You are the one gifted to it. So what are you set apart to do? Pour yourself into those tasks. There are a hundred-and-one other things that you can get other people to do joyfully, gladly, better than you! Pray that God will give you those people and learn to open your hands and let go and let God.I’m such a control-freak, Type A personality, and all that jazz. I’ve literally, by and in his grace, been forcing my hands open so that I am no longer holding the church back. Everything doesn’t have to be funneled through me. I used to stand up and lead the worship. God has given us somebody who has a heart for him and can lead the worship. I don’t have to do this. He can do it better than I can. So I’m not doing it. I used to do everything from setting up to locking the door. I don’t have to set up. Somebody else can lock the door. I don’t have to counsel everyone. I don’t have to cook meals for everyone or organize everything. I need to preach the gospel. I need to shepherd the leaders of the church. I need to cast vision. I need to track the culture. I need to do the things that only I can do and pass the rest of the stuff off to others. If you’re not doing that, I would encourage you to do it. It has transformed our church. It’s no longer Matt doing it. It is a team of people doing what they can do, and the pastor doing only what he can do. It has freed me up to be much better at what I do. It is a struggle for people who are perfectionists, but it is a necessary thing for the church to grow beyond [the leader].
Is that 20 minutes?
Issue No. 13 main article | Research Review index | Emmanuel Gospel Center
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