Home > Emmanuel Research Review > Issue No. 13 > > Ismail
PereiraTalk to Me!
Church Planting Panel Discussion,
Boston, October 15, 2005
Supplement to Issue No. 13, January 31,
2006
Issue No. 13 main article
| Research Review index | Emmanuel Gospel
Center
[summary comments: Ismail shares his reason for ministry, family background, equipping, calling, and various experiences in the course of his international ministry of evangelism and church planting.]
Listen to Ismail ’s talk (MP3 file, 25 minutes)
IP: I thank God. I knew that Matt [Kruse] had to be first. You know, the MBA guy, well organized and all of that. I’m none of that.
A reason from Romans
But I’m going to read to you my motto and what got me into this [ministry]. Paul, when he introduces his Epistle to the Romans, right in the very first verses, he gives his vision. And there are three very specific reasons why he wants to go to Rome. And I think the last one is the one that makes me keep on going here. And what causes me, really, to come here. He says, “The reason why I want to come and see you folks in Rome is because of the power of the gospel to transform lives.” And I think that is the climax when he introduces this epistle. That’s the main reason why I want to go see you. And that’s basically the reason that I am involved in this [ministry].My Family
A bit of background. I am married. My wife, Regina, she is a nurse in the largest Portuguese hospital in Fall River. I have two daughters, Barbara and Rebecca. They are angels. Two years ago, because we had no parental issues [problems], we thought we had done something wrong. So we decided to become foster parents. You know, let’s see what’s wrong with this picture, because our daughters never really had any problems. So we are learning how to be parents with these foster kids. Because [with] our kids, God has really been very gracious to us. Anyway.Ministry training
In 1993, I graduated from CUME, [Gordon-Conwell’s] Center for Urban Ministerial Education. Eighty percent of my classes I took over here in this room. And the reason why I want to bring this up is because I want to give all the credit, really, to my professors. I got a diploma. I never got a master’s degree. I didn’t have the time.Called to Brazil
In 1994, God called me to the mission field—the urban mission field. So I went back to Brazil as a missionary of the Baptist Convention of Brazil to work in the port area, the largest iron ore port in the world, where we had contact with 120 seafarers who were from around the world, everyday. So my job was to evangelize them. I was a port chaplain. And my main goal there—I was not only to do social work with them—but my main goal was to evangelize them. So we established in Brazil the first chaplaincy work in Brazil; there was none up until then. So we were there about five years. And we left behind three different chaplaincy programs in Brazil in several different states. That was by the glory of God and by his mercy.Called back from Brazil
Then I was called back by the church that sent me—Bible Baptist Temple in Fall River. The pastor was getting older and he decided that it was time for him to find somebody else to work among the Portuguese-speaking community. Fall River and New Bedford [is] the largest Portuguese-speaking community outside Portugal. There are at least 300,000 Portuguese-speaking people in that area. Sixty-five percent of the population in Fall River are Portuguese. And I’m talking about Portuguese who are very engrained in the Portuguese culture. You know, very Catholic, very staunch in the rules of Catholicism. It’s really a tremendous challenge.Vision and strategy
When we began working with Baptist Temple in 1999, when we came back from Brazil, God gave us the vision of the Portuguese-speaking community and that includes a few more people besides Portuguese from Portugal. That includes countries in Africa and also Brazilians. I’m from Brazil myself. So when I got there, I found a small group of good, old Portuguese who came out of Portuguese Catholicism, who are Christians, very strong Christians, but also very big in their culture. There were no Brazilians there, but the Brazilians began coming to Fall River. And today I deal with the poorest of the poor. Brazilians in Fall River are the poorest of the poor. They are passers [by]. They are searching for something, and Fall River is a good place to make some quick cash. So as the Brazilians began coming, I felt the need to begin reaching out to the Brazilians, because there was a great need. So I was pastoring the Portuguese group and I was being a social worker to the Brazilians.Two different communities in tension
So two different communities, doing two different jobs. But through [my] doing social work, they began coming to church. So after about a year-and-a-half of ministering to the Portuguese group, we had a group of about 85. The last service I had, there was about 87 Brazilians. Then there were cultural problems. Because the good, old people—they had been treasurer for twenty years and secretary for eighteen years—and it comes time for a new election, and now you have five times more Brazilians than Portuguese. Then you know, the question is, “Who is going to run this place?” So I had to leave because I couldn’t deal with that. Then I walked out, basically. For three years I tried to coordinate the situation.International Baptist Church
So I left and I started a new service. And I started calling it International Baptist Church—meaning Brazilians, Portuguese, Europeans, Africans. No matter who speaks Portuguese, you’re welcome here. We started in a great hotel; mainly a Portuguese hotel that there is over there in Fall River. Paul [Bothwell (present at this meeting)] was there. And I thank God for Paul because he has been my mentor all along. But there was a point in time when I really didn’t want to do anything anymore. It was just, you know, [I was] thinking, I got a couple of cards under my sleeve to play. You know, I could make a good living in America without dealing with all these people pulling me. Pulling here. Pulling there. Complaining. I figured, the heck with this, but then Paul wouldn’t let me [quit]. He made me start this new group. He called and he got me time to talk with Mark Marchak [of Mission to the Americas]. I really didn’t know what to do, honestly. I’m really not a pastor. I found that out—working as a pastor for about three years at Baptist Temple—I found out I’m not a pastor. I’m a church planter. I’m an evangelist. You know, I’m not well organized. You know, all my theological training—I thank God and I thank CUME for it. It was a lot of hard work and hardship to get through those years. I thought, you know, that’s what I have. And you know, they basically trained me to be a missionary. They didn’t train me to be a pastor. And I guess I was just trying the wrong thing. But then, when we got out of the pastoral situation with the church and went to that hotel over there—Paul remembers the first meetings. We had about 120, 130—the place was packed, people from all over the place. Maybe most of them [came] with curiosity, I guess, trying to find out what kind of church this guy is going to plant. But then, after a while, in about three months, we found ourselves at the place we’re at now. And we are running about 100 to 110 on Sundays.Four years and five churches
After four years, I have pastored five different churches in the same location. They have come and gone, come and gone. We have two families from the original group. That’s it, besides my family. So there are similarities in this and what Matt [Kruse] is trying to do. And there are a lot of differences. So I am dealing with the poorest of the poor. He is trying to have a church which is culturally relevant. That is what I am trying to do. But you see, Brazilians, you have to call them in, because they have nothing else. They don’t go to cultural clubs. They don’t go to the YMCA. They don’t belong to any major Lions Club or whatever club. They don’t do that. So in order to reach them, we have to call them. You have to ask them to come. You have to offer something that will be social for them. Of course, in the meantime, we have to help them move, bring their kids to the doctor, to school. You know, you have to do all of that stuff in order for them to trust you. And then they will come to your functions, your dinners, this or that, your movie night. All of those nights, we have [them] in our church and they come. And many of them will come, because they have nowhere else to go that night. So they will come. First of all, they are underpaid and overworked. They work too much and they don’t get enough pay. The majority of them are undocumented. They don’t have many options either. So, they come to church. So you know, I do an altar call every Sunday night, every Sunday night. So, do you see how there are many similarities, but there are many differences? They go to church, and you—almost as a rule—have some coming to Christ. So we baptize very often. And I thank God for it.Sending missionaries almost every month
We are sending missionaries almost every month, because they are going somewhere. They came, they got saved, and [got] some kind of discipleship. You see, they receive some kind of discipleship and then they go. We disciple them, one-on-one, two-on-one, whatever. Basically, that is what we do.SE: Are they going locally, to the U.S. or…?
IP: Oh, they are going everywhere. They are going to Europe, Japan, to Brazil, to New York, to California.It’s a community on the move, but some stay
They are going everywhere because they are a community on the move. They are moving everywhere. Canada. We have several that have moved to Canada. Several have moved back to Brazil. When they came to Christ here, they couldn’t bear the fact that their families weren’t saved. So some of them went back. They went back because they had that great need to evangelize. So we have sent missionaries out in the least expensive way. We don’t need to help them [in] any way financially. That’s the best kind of missionary.And some stay. A lot of people are coming and going and some are staying. And sometimes I don’t really understand why some of them stay, because Fall River is not really a place where you can make a lot of money. So sometimes they just give up, they drop their American dream, and they decide to stay. Some of them, I feel, it’s because of the change the gospel made in their lives, and some, it’s because they are just so tired of searching for something. So it’s kind of a mixed feeling.
Keeping the mission focus
So if you ask what I have been learning, bear with me, because I am trying to learn, too. I am trying to learn how to extend.We started on the first Sunday of June of 2001. The third Tuesday of June, 2001, we started our second group in New Bedford. So we ran two groups, two little groups, one with about 80 to 100 and one group with about 25 for about four months. Then I came back from New Bedford and brought another pastor with me. I walked with him for about three months and now he runs the show now with about 50 to 70 people in New Bedford. So the hardest thing to do in Fall River—which is the place where I am at on a Sunday basis as the pastor of that group—is to keep the mission focus. The turnaround is so fast that to keep that mission focus is very complicated. And I tell them almost every Sunday, “This is a missionary church.” And some of them, probably when I say that, they [draw] a big question mark and say, “What is he talking about?”
God is moving too fast
We have started four other groups in four years. Our goal is to start one every year. But now we are working on three different congregations at the same time. So it looks like we are loosing track, because God is moving too fast for us. So as we preach the transforming power of the gospel to these people, we also tell them that they need to go out and do the same, all the time. It’s like every month we are back at the same base. Some people look at me and say, “That is easy, because you can go back to basics every year. You don’t have to be too profound, because you have a new church every year.” I say that is good and it’s bad. It’s good, because you are sending people out all the time. It’s bad, because you would love to teach some other stuff. Give them some meat. But usually I am still [teaching] on the milk. There are very few people who have come along long enough that they are getting meat.Transparency
One thing that I heard from Matt [Kruse] and have been emphasizing, playing with, and experiencing on my own, is transparency. People don’t ratify who I am and what I am to do. Once the direction of the church is set, we just go, whether they like it our not. Usually, [when] somebody comes to our church to visit for the first time, I advise them to visit other Brazilian churches in the community. And I give them the address and the name of the pastors and I tell them to go visit them. Go visit them. You visited our church, now go and visit these five or so other churches. And if you decide to come back, you will be very welcome. And if you decide to stay at any other church, fine. I tell our people, “You are forbidden from inviting anyone who goes to another church. Don’t.” If somebody from our church invites someone from another church, I rebuke them. I tell them not to. Unfortunately, among Brazilians it is common for people to have problems of doctrines and means and ways. [Therefore,] if somebody shows up at our church from another church, I send them back. I tell them, “Make peace with your pastor and bring me a letter from the congregation. Then you can come and stay.”We don’t want Christians in our church
We don’t want Christians in our church. We want people that have not been saved. And I insist that for my people in my church all the time. They become friends with Christians from other churches, and the first thing they do is invite them to church. And I say, “You cannot do that here. They can come for a dinner, but make them understand they are not being invited to join our church. They should stay where they are.”I can’t see the end
So it is amazing what God has been doing, but I can’t see the end. You see how different it is from what my brother has in his situation. I don’t have the vision for the end. I don’t know what the end is. And I have no idea as to how it is going to be. Is this church going to grow to be a large church? I don’t know. I do know we got to plant a lot of churches. That’s the only thing I see in the future.I want to go
Actually, many times I wanted to go to the other churches that we have opened. Oh, we are going to start another church in Rockland. Oh, I want to go. Thank God! I’m out of here. “No”, God says, “Here’s somebody [else]. He’s going to go.” East Providence! I’m going! “No! He’s going.” All that to say, I don’t know how long I am going to stay in Fall River. You know, I don’t feel like I’m settled here. Falmouth came along. And I was crazy to move Falmouth in Cape Cod, but you know God said “No. You’re not going. He’s going to go.” So we have a pastor there. So we have been sending people out.We are small
We are still small. We don’t have a large budget. Last year was the first year after three years that we went over the $100,000 mark. So we don’t have money. We don’t have big resources. But God is sending us the people. And as he sends the people, he sends the resources for the people. We just keep moving on in time. I worked fulltime until December—last December. I’m a kitchen designer by trade and I worked fulltime. It was only last December that the church was able to squeeze enough [money] that I was able to give up my office. And we have had fulltime pastors already on staff ready for us in these different cities since the first month of the church. But I always felt that I needed to go out and keep the support coming in so I can use the church budget to do missions. And I keep on telling the people, “Your money is for missions. You might have other plans for your money, but God has this plan for your money: missions.”God’s vacuum
So you know, I tell people sometimes, “I don’t know where I am going.” Sometimes, I feel like I am [being] sucked by God’s vacuum; that it’s right ahead of me and I am trying to keep up with it on a daily basis. I’m not very well organized, although we do have our bylaws and stuff like any other church. But I’m not one of those guys spending a whole lot of time in the office planning and projecting. I’m over there. I’m with the people. I’m out on the streets. I just keep helping them along with whatever is necessary. Basically, that’s how we have been doing church.We are going to send you but we have no money to send you
God has been gracious enough to send us pastors that are missionary-minded. We tell them, “Listen. We are going to send you there, but we have no money to send you. Do you want to go?” That’s basically how we have been doing it. God provides the funds. Basically, that’s how it happens.SE: The people then, that are going out, they are raising their own funds then? So they are not wealthy people?
IP: Oh, yeah. Some of them are dishwashers. Some of them are truck drivers.
SE: Marvelous.
Issue No. 13 main article | Research Review index | Emmanuel Gospel Center
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